An Inside Look at Running a Multi 7-Figure Course w/ Mark Webster & Gael Breton from Authority Hacker

Why is ActiveCampaign Mentioned?

Mark and Gael use ActiveCampaign which is a CRM/Marketing Automation Platform similar to Keap/Infusionsoft. Memberium has integration with both systems and they just happen to use ActiveCampaign. All the things they mention with ActiveCampaign can still be done with Memberium + Keap. Normally, we wouldn’t share these walkthroughs (ones with ActiveCampaign being used) with Keap users, but the lessons shared are just too valuable not to. Enjoy!

In this new video, Mark Webster and Gael Breton give us an inside look at how they grew their course Authority Hacker to where it is today. Starting a multi seven figure course like this doesn’t happen overnight.

Throughout this video, you’ll get the inside story of how they did it and an inside look at how they run their course.

They share some valuable lessons they’ve learned along the way and some key insights that you can use to grow your own course or membership program.

If you’d like to learn more about affiliate marketing from Mark and Gael, you can check out their free, in-depth training on their homepage here…

How Authority Hacker Started


In 2015 Mark and Gael launched Authority Hacker after selling their marketing agency they had built up to a 30+ person company. Throughout their time running that agency, they had been internally documenting their process they followed whenever they started a new affiliate website for themselves. They took all of their standard operating procedures (SOP’s) and systems they’d documented, then turned that into the first version of their course called “The Authority Site System”.

At the time that was sold as a $29 product that consisted of about 5 videos.

Today that course, and their other main program, ‘Authority Hacker Pro’ generates a multiple seven figures a year. It’s now helped train over 7,000 students how to create their own affiliate authority sites and has grown into a massive library of valuable content.

What You’ll Learn Throughout This Video…


Mark and Gael share some of the main ingredients that helped contribute to their success with their course. You’ll also get an inside look at how their course evolved to where it is today.

They mentioned the “quality of their courses content and the value it delivers” as one of their main growth drivers since they started. The other big piece is the enthusiasm of their community. They’ve built their audience up significantly over the years in their niche, the affiliate marketing space. Which is tied back to the huge amount of value they deliver through the content that they consistently deliver to their audience.

The other interesting take away is they run their course more like a membership instead of a one off course.

When a customer buys one of their courses, they get access to lifetime updates to that course. Mark and Gael make a ton of updates consistently to both courses. It’s a big part of what they attribute to the success of their program. This helps build up a lot of long term goodwill with their customers that ends up paying them back in lots of other ways.

The other important thing here is Mark and Gael really care about their members and what they have to teach. They’ve devoted almost everything to help their students be successful. This is a big part of what separates them from most other course creators and what makes their course so great. They share their candid opinion on what it’s really like running a course at this size.

Discover the most important lessons they’ve learned along the way and find out about the sales strategy that’s worked best for generating new sales for their course.

Mark and Gael run their course with Memberium for ActiveCampaign, ActiveCampaign as their CRM (obviously), LearnDash, Elementor and Astra as their theme. In this video, you’ll get an inside look at how their course and WordPress site is structured on the inside (14:10).

Elementor allows them to design their site the way they want with its drag and drop builder. LearnDash controls the learning management aspect of their site. Memberium for ActiveCampaign controls the membership part and access to their site that’s delivered automatically with ActiveCampaign.

Most of the things they talk about can apply to anyone using ActiveCampaign, Infusionsoft or really any marketing CRM platform or any membership platform. Mark and Gael share their experience of switching from Ontraport to ActiveCampaign and their opinion on using “all-in-one” type of platforms in their business.

Other Valuable Lessons You Can Apply to Your Course or Membership…


Course Pricing Models

In 2015 they started out with 5 videos sold as a one time fee for $29. They switched their courses pricing a bunch of times. Over time going back and forth from different subscription offers to different one time prices. They finally found their sweet spot with where they’re at today. They figured out their average customer lifetime value, then multiplied it by two. Which is about $2k to access their higher level course.

Course Update Changelog

This was a cool idea we’ve never seen before. Mark and Gael are constantly making small updates to the course that their students have access to for life. To keep track of these and inform their members, they’ve included a detailed changelog letting their students know what new updates they’ve made to specific sections of their program.

What it takes to grow a course over the long term

Learn about the evolution of the Authority Hacker brand and discover how it grew from just a $29 product with five videos, to a multi seven-figure business per year.

Running a course like a membership with an insane amount of value included

Once someone buys their course, they get access to it, and all the future updates they make to that course, for life. Find out the surprising effect this had on their business and allowed them to grow really fast.

Switching from MemberMouse and “All-in-One” Software Solutions

See why Gael and Mark weren’t happy with MemberMouse as their membership plugin and why they don’t like using “All-in-One” software solutions for their business.

A Surprising Way to Reduce Their Refund Rate

In an analysis of everyone who’s refunded their course, they found 90% of those customers hadn’t joined their premium Facebook group they offer with their course. If someone did join, it significantly reduces the chance they’ll ask for a refund.

This gave Mark and Gael something specific to work on improving in their courses onboarding. They also came up with a unique way to better welcome their new members with a personal touch that simultaneously encouraged them to join their Facebook group. Find out what they did and what effect it had on reducing their refund rate in the full video (24:40).

Their Best Online Course Sales Strategy

Gael breaks down one of their best strategies for generating new sales with their course. It starts with people searching for relevant keywords related to their course on Google. Through these pages, they offer an in depth, free training that’s about two hours long. This presentation is ran as an automated evergreen webinar. This delivers a ton of value to anyone interested in learning more about what they have to teach and sets a strong first impression.

Then they offer a limited time discount (ran in an evergreen way using ActiveCampaign) on their lower level course. If someone doesn’t take that offer, they get offered a payment plan offer with the discount. All of these emails are delivered automatically through ActiveCampaign after that person opts in. That discount expires after a certain amount of time (also automated through ActiveCampaign).

If that person doesn’t buy up until that point, they continue to get longer term updates from being on Mark and Gael’s email list. Over time they build up more trust with people like this who end up converting later down the line.

Biggest Online Course Mistakes

Mark shares some of the biggest mistakes they’ve made in starting their program. He thinks one of the early ones is underpricing their program. To their surprise, every time they’ve raised their price, their conversion rates haven’t gone down.

Online Course Customer Service Advice

Mark and Gael share some quick tips on how to run an efficient customer service department when you own an automated online course. They use HelpScout for their support ticket system. “What gets measured, gets improved.” They talk about how they’ve improved their customer support team over time and how it’s evolved. They also share some quick tips on hiring good people for your company.

Other Video Highlights

  • How Mark and Gael get feedback from their customers and approach improving their courses content over time.
  • Including clear goals or action steps with each individual lesson has helped their students get better results and outcomes from their program.
  • How they found out where certain members were getting stuck in their course shortly after starting using LearnDash and what they did to get them unstuck.
  • Hear about Gael and Mark’s strategy for keeping their members engaged with their course.
  • See how Gael uses Memberium autologin links to allow people who purchase their course to automatically log in right after submitting their ThriveCart order form. They also use auto login links when they email all of their members with updates.

Video Transcript

Running a Multi 7-Figure Course w/ Authority Hacker – Mark Webster & Gael Breton


Andrew
Hey everyone, it’s Andrew from Memberium, and today we have the pleasure of talking with Mark Webster and Gael Breton, the two co-founders of www.authorityhacker.com. And for those of you who don’t know Mark and Gael, they’re both very accomplished Internet marketers, course creators and entrepreneurs. And Mark and Gael have been kind enough to give us an inside look at a few of his courses that are built with Memberium, an ActiveCampaign. They’re also going to be sharing some of the lessons they’ve learned along the way as they’ve grown their course and taking Authority Hacker to where it is today. Gael and Mark, thanks for joining so much.

Gael
Thank you. Good to be here.

Mark
Thanks for having us.

Andrew
So why don’t you guys tell us a little bit about your business, how you got started and how you got to where you are today?

Mark
We got started over 10 years ago. I knew a little bit about building websites, Gael, near a little bit about SEO, and we decided to start agency together. And so we did. We grew that to about 30 people. We sold it in 2015. But as we’re running our agency, part of the reason that we do the business never really took off in the way we wanted it to was we just didn’t really like working for clients. We love the content we loved.

Mark
We loved online marketing. But the idea of building someone else’s business for them wasn’t really didn’t really gel with us. And to be honest, at the customer side of things, the client side of things was never really our forte. So halfway through that that project, we look to start building our own websites. And as we’re doing that, we decided to document that process in Authority Hacker And so just putting the SOPs, the step by step instructions that we were kind of like following ourselves, we decided to put that into a blog format.

Mark
People liked it initially. It was just Gael writing it, so people really liked it. And then we moved to actually creating info products around that. So courses. And for about five years that’s been our our primary business model on Authority Hacker. Can you give us a brief overview of what your course teaches people to do? Yeah, I mean, we have two courses, we have The Authority Site System, which is a beginners course that is teaching people how to build and grow their first moneymaking website to fill a website so that getting someone from zero zero presumed knowledge, zero dollars a month to a place where they could conceivably quit their job and work for themselves.

Mark
So no Ferrari’s anything like that, just job replacement income. And then we have authority Hacker PRO, which is our advanced course, more modular. And it’s for people who have profitable websites already who want to grow it further through various strategies, having new products, growing the SEO, building links, scaling the content creation, quite, quite heavy focus. But we do cover, you know, paid traffic and Pinterest and some other bits and pieces in front of us as well. Yeah.

Andrew
Very cool, and can you give us an overview of what’s included in your offer for Authority Hacker? Yeah, sure. So it’s kind of a mix of I guess you say it’s quite similar to what would be in a typical membership site. So while we do price and structure as a course, it’s like a one off fee. You get access to like several different courses.

Mark
We call them Blueprints within their each targeting a specific area of online marketing. Try and keep it so very actionable. SOPs step by step over the shoulder. Videos. No, not so much like what do you call it? PowerPoint. We try and avoid that as much as possible. We have a community, so we have a Facebook group that we use for for that. We have a lot of templates and stuff in there. We built a few software tools, even very basic ones, but we included that.

Mark
So really just like lots of stuff which over the years our our members, as we call them, have have tried out for and asked us to to produce. And we’ve tried to provide that I think need to go back to the beginning.

Gael
At the beginning, it was just like five videos that we put on, like we sold as a twenty nine product on a thank you page of opt in for the blog. So initially it was just a blog with free content and obviously we were building an email list. So we had a pop up, we had the grades and all that. And when you were in, you were redirected to a page. And initially the first version was just exactly the tactics we use to build our email list. And at the time we were like monitoring this more than we are now, to be honest.

Gael
And we were getting over 10 percent of it to the blog. So that was really high. And so we’re like, well, we’ll show the tactics we use to get higher opt in rates. And that was a 29 dollar product. And then after that we we sold quite a bit. I was quite surprised to be honest. And so we built an upsell which was like basically our email marketing, sequence system, etc. how we would be marketing. After you created the email we sold out for 297 dollars.

Gael
That did quite well as well. And then after that we’re like, well people would like these kind of like step by step just just do just do these setups. That’s how I call them. And and essentially. Yeah. That we develop more of that for differences because we were doing a lot at the time and blogging and everything like this. So we just built these same systems for all that. And that’s how we came. Our current offering, basically.

Andrew
That’s school. And what year was that when you started that? Twenty nine dollar?

Gael
2014, 2015.

Andrew
OK, yeah, that’s exactly what we recommend. Everyone starts you need to start a minimum viable product. A lot of people see a lot of big Internet marketers or people like where you guys are today and they think they need to have this really complicated, in-depth membership program built out when really they just need a really simple course that they can start selling and proving they can they can sell it at first, even before that is building an audience that really likes your your content.

Mark
Once you have that, it’s it’s very easy to to to sell anything, regardless of what state it is to people, especially with like a membership. If you’re going with that model, you don’t need to have everything in there on day one can build as you go.

Andrew
Right. Yeah. And knowing what your audience wants is also key. So since you guys started well in 2015, how many students have gone through your program? Roughly.

Mark
It’s around seven thousand now.

Andrew
That’s quite a bit. And then so since well if you don’t mind sharing, how much revenue did you generate from your course over the past year?

Mark
I need to look at the numbers. It’s multiple seven figures. So.

Andrew
OK, wow. Very interesting. So when was it when did you start using ActiveCampaign? Just so we

Gael
started with a Ontraport, actually, when we started I’ll tell you, I was excited by using Ontraport, I like the all in one solution, etc. Then we realized most of our emails were landing in spam.

Gael
And so we’re like, well, that’s probably not the way to go. To be frank, we could have done better on the set up. But also at the time they had some big issues really that we learned is not really great at every single function. And when you want to go deeper, you just don’t find it. So you want to find. And so we decided to then. split that up, into the tools that specialize in what they’re doing and so.

Gael
At the time, that’s when we started ActiveCampaign, to be frank, ActiveCampaign is really expensive these days, but it was pretty much the same price as it were at the time at which we signed up, which also was an easy jump, actually save this money from Ontraport at that point, I was like, wow, we’re splitting up, we’re going to pay for maybe a membership solution on the site, etc., but because the ActiveCampaign is cheaper, it’s actually nicer to use than we’re going to use that. It was also a lot slower in terms of the.

Gael
So that’s essentially that was maybe a year into the business, I would say 2016. And at the time we actually did use Memberium mouse for our membership system. And again, we made that mistake of having it all in one because the check out and everything. And and again, we run into the same issues like the customers to check out and everything and well, didn’t have the.

Mark
So we had to get that business tinkerers where we like doing things our way. And if we have an idea that doesn’t fit in the existing platform, it really irritates. So we’re always looking for flexible solutions.

Andrew
I’d imagine with ActiveCampaign you have quite a big email list, so. That would be one of the reasons why it’s so expensive for for you guys.

Mark
Yeah, and they’ve just increased their price over over the years as they’ve added new features and put those into the higher tiers as as most SaaS companies do, sort of as they as they develop.

Gael
It’s not just that, its what we used. We don’t use a basic one. We use the Plus. So we can do the the Facebook stuff as well, because it’s quite important for us to be able to put people in different lists using automations in two different Facebook audiences so we can show them the right ads. And so it’s actually not the basic pricing. It’s like the second one, at least all the really big list. So yeah, it becomes expensive, but to be honest, it’s like we make the money back.

Gael
So it’s like no regrets on paying the bill, even though it’s the biggest SaaS bill we have actually.

Mark
It’s the only SaaS tool that we actually pay yearly because we’re so ingrained in it and we know we’re not going to move out of anytime soon. Right. And I’m sure it automates a lot of stuff for you and. Yes, that’s everything. I mean, we we use on one of our courses, we use a lot of evergreen scarcity. So we have like a webinar funnel would like real actual deadlines for discount offer that we put out to new subscribers.

Gael
And yeah, just everything is stored within ActiveCampaign, like all the tags, all the member even deadlines to that.

Andrew
Yeah, it’s cool. And I’m hoping I’m hoping we can dive into more of that later in the call. Let’s see. Looking back from when you guys started, what were some of the main things that helped make the biggest impact in growing your your guys course?

Mark
So, I mean, first of all, the content itself, it was a little bit different to there in the early days, it wasn’t very well produced, it was very rough and ready. But it was it was good.

Mark
It was actionable. It was stuff that we had learned from doing all of this online marketing stuff on our other sites and for back in the day for our clients. So there was a lot of new really good ideas. There was a bit of a mad scientist. And he’s always coming out with these like genuinely innovation and genuinely new innovations in an industry which typically just copies each other. So I think that was first and foremost something which which which worked well in the early days.

Mark
And I also think that there was quite a good like close-Knit community of people who were all doing the same thing, like running. They’re running their own sites, building, growing their own sites in the early days. And so there was definitely a bit of word of mouth spread spread when we when we first launched. Of course.

Gael
I think positioning was key because, yeah, it’s like a lot of people talk about online marketing and people talk about SEO, etc. It’s pretty saturated. But when we talked about essentially building these these passive income sites of these kind of affiliate authority site type stuff, like, there was not a lot of resources based on that. And the ones that existed were not very good, not very well produced, kind of like the third project that person runs and just very well maintained.

Gael
So able to jump into this and kind of like mix essentially the monetization tactics we have with the traffic generation tactics we have, which when they’re combined together, that would be different, because if you’re monetizing, let’s say, I think marketing and then you need to think about the search and the people that come from Google and how you can present offers to them so they buy, which is different from bay traffic, etc.. So that kind of angling was not unique.

Gael
It existed already, but we put more effort into it at the time when there was not a lot of content and that allowed us to build a community pretty fast actually. Very interesting and so.

Andrew
Can you walk us through everything as a student in your site and give us an inside look at what your site looks like from a student’s perspective?

Gael
It’s pretty simple, to be honest. And I think I think the thing is, like a lot of people try to overcomplicate the experience when people just want to people want to Netflix your content. They want to do it.

Gael
They want access right away. People hate drip feeding. People hate all that. And so we actually decided to not do any of that. Let me know if you can see my screen now.

Andrew
I can see your screen. So when somebody joins up, when somebody joins, they get access to content all at once. Yeah, right away. So the thing is like, yeah, we did do that.

Gael
And actually they also get 30 day money back guarantee. So we’re pretty generous. And like like people could literally watch the content for 30 days and request a refund that I’m sure some people do it given some of the fun we get. But what we try to build through our whole thing is like we’re not hiding anything from you. It’s all open. And then we build up goodwill as well. That’s what we people pay one and forget lifetime updates.

Gael
And what that does is that builds brand advocates for us, which actually in exchange, when we do a product launch people. We see it, we see on Facebook groups, et cetera, people like, oh, what do you think of the schools, etc. is is good or something. And then we have like a dozen customers that just shut that discussion straight and they updated all the time. And like, you don’t have any of these bullshit, like they tried to make you go through 12 steps to get a refund if you want a refund and all like all the, you know, a lot of tactics that do make money to some companies, but in the long run also builds a lot of defiance towards the brand.

Gael
We try to avoid that and try to be honest, there is a welcome page, I can’t remember right now, to be honest, but welcome page is just a video of us saying, hey, welcome to remember. Ah, click on the button to get any line on this page, which is basically just a list of courses we are using, LearnDash for the completion rate, etc. So you can see how much. I mean now I’m worried about here.

And of course the the Memberium is built with LearnDash, which as I said, is built with Memberium and is built with elemental. So elemental way allows us to essentially take over, are going to take the same system that’s probably the most advanced. And so I’m going to click on, of course, called the system, which is I think, of course. And essentially when you land on the course page, you essentially get these kind of like homepage for the class itself.

Gael
You get a welcome video. So you have Mark, for example, that’s going to welcome you, etc. and then you get the main parts. So you get kind of like a cross navigation. So in this case, we built a whole site for this class actually to show exactly people so they can go and check that site. We have built a to do list for them on Trello so they can click and duplicate that on Trello. We have the Facebook community.

Gael
People can contact our supporters. Also, you can see we have to get in touch here. And we also have essentially an ask a question form because at the beginning this say it’s one of these things, right? It’s like we were trying to, like, not talk to people like, oh, they paid us. Now we just want to make money. We just want to give them an extra. But they realize that actually talking to customers in the long run actually did better for us and reinforce that kind of like goodwill from people.

Gael
And we have an Update Log as well. And we put it prominently here because we have a base. And so we want people to see that we are updating the course and that stuff is happening. And if they want to see the updates, they can they don’t have to go through the whole thing. Then we essentially have something pretty classic focus. So you can see this because there’s one hundred and twenty videos in this class.

Andrew
So, yeah, that’s one question that I had. So you mentioned it’s your comments came a long way from when you first started. Did asking your customers questions along the way, like you mentioned with ask a question, did that help your content evolve over time? You can relate to that now because you need to yeah, so I mean, we just recently started doing surveys of our of our audience, of our members, and we pulled a lot of data out of out of that.

Mark
And that’s been really, really useful. We’re always just like chatting with people and observing feedback. Our support team on our biweekly team calls is like pulling in feedback where if there’s anything that’s like consistently coming up, like a question that they’re answering multiple times, we’ll create a video for the course on it so that they can just say, oh, hey, refer to refer to this. So in terms of like serving the the content needs, that’s just there’s been a process of gradual process, I guess, but we’ve improved quite a bit on the other side.

Mark
So like the content delivery side of things, I mean, we started off using these headsets, which are about five years old, and I started recording on my laptop, just my MacBook , the webcam in a laptop.

Mark
And it was it was very basic. But, you know, people didn’t seem to mind that much and no one was really complaining maybe once or twice about the audio. But no one is really complaining. Oh, it’s not in 4K or it’s not like amazingly produced or something. So I think it’s really important just to focus on the actual quality of the content. And over time, you will just naturally get better webcams or get better Mics and a level up that way.

Mark
But some of our older content in the course is still shot on on webcam. And I guess we’re OK for some because there’s a lot of screen cast.

Mark
But yeah, I would say you don’t need to worry too much about it being, you know, studio level quality on day one or a lot of times a common mistake people make when they’re building a new course or a membership site is they create all of their content first before really asking or understanding what their audience wants. And so then when they released the course from membership, they have to go after they talk to the customers, they figure out they recorded the wrong type of content and they go back and redo their their core content.

Mark
Yeah, absolutely, I think that’s why building building the audience first and like having that good free content on your on your blog or whatever channel is you’re using and seeing what people respond to there will inform your decision about which kind of product to to create. I think to have a podcast and and we see, like people the number of downloads, a number of views on YouTube, but everything I like that look, so for example like we use to use, that the featured snippets like how to get the top brain can go as if snippet is the most popular topic.

Gael
I’m pretty sure if you’re turning on that, people would react positively to that. So it’s like I just gives me like free content is not only a way to market yourself, it’s a way to essentially do market research while actually growing your audience. So it works very well for us.

Gael
So that’s what that’s how business model sometimes as well. If we’ve been creating these this kind of content for five plus years now, just get to a point where you kind of run out of an idea. And if we’re ever in that situation, we go to the group, will make a poll or we’ll ask a question like, what do you guys want to see in the upcoming lessons or what podcast should we record next? And people will give us ideas and we’ll go from there.

Andrew
That’s another great tip. So sorry to interrupt you going through the site there, Gael. You want to continue? Yeah.

Gael
OK, so basically we essentially split design into modules, so we try to actually work on the big update of these calls and there would be even more modules where basically we try to keep things pretty short with like one video per lesson and also we have stuff that prepares. So essentially our lesson is a video series. This is a four minute video that just shows, for example, how to set up links on WordPress and all that stuff so that it’s not like these p=, whatever horrible URLs that you get by default.

Gael
And then we also have stuff that prepares the notes based on our videos. Take screenshots so people can go back through, of course, without watching the video because videos are cool ones. But like, if I ask you to watch Inception, it’s kind of like not really interesting. Well, it’s kind of the same for video lessons. You just don’t want to watch them. You want to go back to notes. So we put a lot of effort into it.

Gael
So you can see if I take anything to have establishing basic training here, like you can see that the notes and the written part is also very developed and that’s on purpose. So that that’s so that people can really refer to these things back quickly with the resources as well. And also, one thing that we put a lot of attention to is putting a very clear goal for each lesson, which is like you can take this lesson done when you have achieved it.

Gael
So in these cases, like colors, fonts and logo, so you can clearly measure, like, have I done this or not? And once you’ve done that, you can go to the next one. So it’s a tiny thing.

Gael
This template is actually built with a mental structure that I can take my template here and into a new tab and essentially if I wanted to.

Gael
That’s why I like Elementor with that membership, because we literally have full control of the way it looks and we can also react quickly based on feedback. So if someone someone’s like, oh, like, maybe I can just pull these things from ACF, you can see I’m like pulling it. We have ACF in lessons, and then we just put whatever. And then here these are just these are shortcuts are this is a sidebar, but there’s a shortcut in the sidebar that is essentially pulled from the main content.

Gael
And then, yeah, if I wanted to add something below, let’s say I want to add something, I could just do that and I’m going to do in this case. But like, I could pull comes here and then we would be able to have a common functionality on lessons. So it’s really easy actually to do that. So the tech side of things on this membership is actually quite nice to use.

Gael
And and so, yeah, that’s basically it’s pretty simple basically. And then people can just go through all of this. This is a new LearnDash which is integrate with really. Well, one thing that we do as well is we have templates. So here, for example, we talk about a single review template and actually we prepare Google Docs for people so they can click and you can make these special links that just make a copy for people so that you don’t get a thousand requests for anything like you do when you Google Docs for people.

Gael
And then people can just essentially fill the blanks in these templates and use this in their business. So we spend a lot of time perusing templates and people really appreciate these. And really, that’s the main it’s very basic. That’s the main Memberium. And that’s one core sort of like many courses, as you can see, there’s quite a lot already. We have 300 plus videos not coming for over 400 now.

Gael
Yeah, yeah. It’s this 400 videos in this area. And so we have we have a few issues here and there where it’s like, oh, if people didn’t log in some time, like pingers, et cetera. So we can follow. Then, etc., But other than that, to be honest, it’s like. People have been demanding extremely sophisticated things in the area, the other part of the game for us is the Facebook group, which is really popular once you mention, as well as these weekly updates.

Gael
So this is the video that I published literally three days ago. So we we kind of it with that. Initially, we were just we just need to Memberium. But we’re like, actually, it doesn’t matter. We just want our members to consume their content. So we also published a video on Facebook, on the Facebook group, and then it’s also linked inside a video in Memberium. If people want to know, for example, if I think if nothing breaks, they should take me and people have the notes because everything.

Gael
So we have that as an announcement. Every week there is our podcast that people can go and check, and then there’s all the discussions and questions people have gathered. So, for example, this is a tool to speed up a website Nitropack. People are talking about their experience with their sites and Google updates and things like that. But the community is really, really active and has been quite nice so that we’re pushing people a lot to that. We’ve also found that people who join the community have a much lower chance of refunding.

Gael
So pushing people to community when they’re on board is a is really a good idea, actually.

Mark
So we actually looked at the numbers a couple of years ago and we found that of everyone who refunded our courses, over 90 percent I think was at ninety three. Ninety four percent never joined our Facebook communities. So for us, that was a big signal that we need to get these people in the groups because there’s a lot of value there. They’ll interact with other people and hopefully refund less. So we looked at ways to do that. We changed some of our onboarding sequence just to make it more obvious how to join the group where where it was.

Mark
And we also started using a tool called Bonjoro, which is a tool where you can send is a very simple tool that allows you to send video messages to your customers in a semi automated way. I mean, you to record each one individually, but it makes it really, really easy.

Mark
So whenever someone signs up for our course, there’s an automation which will create a new Bonjoro to do. And then one of our support team will go and make this video for someone. They usually get it within one or two days of when they actually sign up. And what happens when the support person’s creating that video is that they’ll check whether the individual, the customer is in the Facebook group or not, and if it is not, then they can put a little call to action and next to that video and they’ll say, make sure you join the Facebook group and stuff like that.

Mark
So, yeah, it’s hugely important for us to do. That’s pretty cool. That’s a nice personal touch. Was there anything else critical with the onboarding that you found, for instance, getting them to log in for the first time or consume a certain amount of lessons so they automatically logged in actually, when they check out.

Gael
We have an automatic login redirect. So they are in a Memberium as a redirect after the check out. So we don’t have to force them to log in. They are in there already and then we can just monitor they’re coming back or something. But normally that is done manually by the person that is recording the video for the new customer. Anyway, a few days later, so we can check whether when we record that video and make sure everything was OK and essentially it’s part of the job.

So like your videos today, now it’s like they actually said the setup was to do and now is like a proper camera and everything is on. So they just do these webcam videos for every single member and can check if they logged in, if everything is OK. Have they joined the Facebook group? All of that. It feels very, very personalized. And that I think that that was done, that the refund rate has dropped massively, actually.

Mark
Yeah, I think I think it’s also like a bit of a psychological change that we’ve had over over the last 18 months. Prior to this, we were we’re almost of the opinion like we don’t want to bother people too much in case the refund, which is a terrible mentality to have when you when you think about it. But we’ve kind of flip that around. We actually want to like remind people now that as soon as they buy that this refund offer, this 30 day no questions asked refund offer still available to you and that kind of like heads off any buyer’s remorse which someone has immediately after buying everyone when they buy something, when they check out that there’s a little bit of buyer’s remorse.

Mark
I did. I did. I made the right decision. So we want to try and reassure people that, hey, yes, everything that we’ve said on the sales pitch, everything we promised is is true in this. You can still you still have this, I think that kind of like. Makes people feel a little bit more at ease there in the first few days.

Andrew
And then you try to help them achieve an outcome as fast as possible after they join or trying to get them some type of quick result after joining, does that is that part of your onboarding strategy? Two or..

Mark
No, it’s not just a couple of reasons for that, one is Authority Hacker Pro our advanced course, it’s not a linear course, is very broad. So everyone joins it for different, different reasons with our beginners courses or system as well. It really depends on your kind of experience level. And like some people can actually get through it quite quickly. But for others who are really new to this, I mean, like, they have to go pretty slow.

Mark
What we what we have done and this is a result of the survey, which we did a few months back, because we found we looked at both what people said they were getting stuck at and what the data we were able to extract from from learned LearnDash was showing us. And it wasn’t amazing data, but we kind of got a good picture of it. We found that people were getting to a very specific point at the end of the second module and there were often getting stuck there.

Mark
So we’ve added a new automation just a few weeks back where whenever someone gets to that point, they’ll get another Bonjoro video message saying, hey, I noticed you just got got to point X, were you able to? And then they’ll talk about the objective of that module. Were you able to choose your niche? Let me know if you need us to send check it or something like that. So we’re playing around with that stuff. We’re still tweaking the exact implementation of how and when when we do it. But, yeah, we recognize it. That’s very important.

Andrew
That’s cool. And you guys do need automated email, follow up with LearnDash and Memberium integration with LearnDash?

Gael
We don’t do it for members, we don’t automatically send them I kind of like a newsletter now is like the new content. The discussions in the Facebook group is manually curated. We haven’t automated that. It’s like maybe we should, but essentially, yeah, we haven’t felt the need so far. Well, that’s OK. I just. You just haven’t.

Mark
I would I would say it makes me think about it now. You know, I would I would say we have felt the need to do it.

Mark
It’s something we have something in our backlog of this like onboarding project, which we’re working on. But there are other more important things we have to work on. But I think later this year will be the big list. Yeah. What I was saying, though, is it’s not really an automation. It’s the broadcast. And this has been really, really well received is because Facebook groups, Facebook communities are not. I mean, the great for engagement, because everyone’s on there, but they’re not so good for, like, finding information in the same way like a forum would be.

Mark
So if you’re not on Facebook the day or the day after a good discussion gets posted, the algorithm might not show it to you. So what we found is that by emailing people like a monthly digest of or emailing members of monthly digest of, here are all the new lessons or new updates or whatever else you may have missed. And here are seven of the best community discussions. And we’ll just link to each discussion so that people can find them. That kind of thing has been been really well received.

Andrew
That is smart. Yeah, that makes sense, especially when you’re making that many updates to your program. A lot of online courses out there have issues with low course completion rates and low engagement. In your experience, what’s helped improve your course, completion rates or what things have helped improve the overall engagement with your program?

Gael
I think the updates are bringing people back, actually. It’s like it’s actually, you know, I’m looking at the gaming industry, right? I’m looking at like fourth night and all these guys that I like make people addicted on their computer all the time. It’s kind of the same mechanics. It’s like it’s actually publish. And you update it with new content like which which is superficial company companies like a point one percent of the game. But it brings people back to log in and play and it works the same with causes. You can add one video to your calls, a simple one, and it brings people back inside and makes them use it again.

Gael
And so and then it’s an occasion for promotion, right? It allows you to email, really allows you you could run retargeting ads, you can post on your communities, et cetera et cetera. You can put a little alert inside your Memberium if you want to promote it as well.

Gael
So new content, even if it’s small, is a massive reengager and I think like people sometimes don’t realize that, but especially if you’re selling, let’s say there’s absolutely no barrier as having like really snackable content updates like five minutes video, screencast screen video click with your phone or whatever on that, can you seeing an update to a tool, your mentioning whatever it is real may bring people back right in front of all your courses, your call to actions and all of that.

Gael
And so it works pretty well. And yeah, I mean, the gaming industry is a multibillion dollar industry at this point and it’s the best thing.

Mark
So, yeah, I think as well we’ve we’ve done a lot in the community to kind of make it more than just a Facebook group of of course. So as little things as well, like we we’ve got a lot of Authority Hacker T-shirts made up lately and people perhaps like crazy for them. So we’ve been giving them away. Various events we were in at the Chiang Mai SEO conference in Chiang Mai last year when conferences were still a thing and we had like a meet up for all our members there where we hired out this like rooftop bar and just bought a bunch of beer fountains or whatever they’re called and gave away a bunch of free T-shirts was Memberium face to face.

Mark
We took took photos of that. And let me be clear, it’s not just because we’re doing those things that people are automatically engaged in the community like it was a good community anyway, but like going the extra mile that people really kind of love the brand.

Mark
Like we have a good group of users that like we’ve known for years now. And because it’s lifetime, they take it, they stick around. Even if they’re like these engaged for it, then they might come back, etc.. And yeah, it’s like the pricing strategy has been a factor of engagement as well, because our group keeps growing because we charge well enough. And so we don’t we’re not fighting churn early.

Mark
Yeah, you’re essentially a membership that charges to one off fee.

Andrew
Yeah, I was going to say, that’s interesting that you’re doing that, because a lot of people don’t do that, or sometimes they’ll have one year they’ll have that year’s version of the course and they get access to only that they want to get the next year’s version. You have to buy the next year’s course. So it sounds like that’s probably a pretty important ingredient for your guys success and having your.

Gael
Well, it’s not I mean. It’s like I mean, it’s around 2000. It’s like we’ve it depends on the variations and the bundles are put together, but we’ve been up even to three thousand dollars for coming in. So, I mean, initially we were membership right where we started, with $28 per month. Then we boosted it up to $49 per month

Gael
And then after that, we figured our lifetime value and multiply that by two and charges that charge one off, you know, and that we made more cells. And so and then we essentially kept that model going. And because we also have all that free content that essentially keeps generating a growing audience, we don’t run out of people to sell to. And that free content is actually like is largely powered by organic traffic, which we don’t pay for. Therefore, it’s like they still like, you know, pretty much most launches that we do.

Gael
I still like at the biggest all close, the biggest that we’ve done. And because we don’t fight churn, it feels like it’s a bigger and bigger thing that gains momentum from the perspective of the user. When you see more and more like engaged people who’ve been there for years and also because people get the updates, they feel like when they’ve been here for three years and still get updates without paying anything, they feel like really good about their investment so that when there’s discussions about those, that people promote us and then that brings more people in.

Gael
So it’s like, yes, we could charge this people. And to be honest, you know, we do make the occasional money from these people, from making recommendations, deals, et cetera, et cetera. So there’s there’s other ways to monetize engaged audiences, not that we do it the best way, to be honest, I don’t think we could get advice on that. But it’s possible we have made money from members that don’t pay us any money anymore. And I think that, yeah, it’s we’re paying in terms of revenue, but then this brings more revenue and it brings momentum and it doesn’t feel like imagine we’re doing that for like two launches in a row.

Gael
It doesn’t feel like the community is shrinking and dying. And we don’t have to fight that like momentum, which can be really tough, I assume, for some membership’s.

Mark
You know, essentially what we’re doing is it’s a membership, but the people who stay forever just get a really, really good deal because they pay one off and they get it forever.

Mark
Everyone else pays the same or a little bit more or whatever, but they’re still only paying one off and they have access forever. Forever. They can you know, we had this guy, Alistar, he went away for like two and a half years. No one saw him. And then he realized that he let cell sites go. And then he came back and was like, guys, and you start working on my sites again, I’m back. And he paid like three hundred bucks or something in twenty fifteen. So he still has access. That’s a really good.

Gael
Now he has the members, you know.

Mark
builds a lot of goodwill from your most engaged like long term users to give them essentially the best deal on this. This wasn’t some kind of like amazing strategy that we had all along and we did go full membership. And then we are the other way and we are payment plans and we’ve bounced around a lot and just kind of ended up on this because it feels the most comfortable for us, I think. And you operate on a yearly lunch model or you do sell all your courses on an evergreen basis.

Mark
One of our courses is on Evergreen. As I mentioned, we have everything evergreen scarcity deadline funnels for that for a discount offer, which is available. But you can go to the site any time you buy it. The other course, Authority Hacker PRO is our advance one, is only available on a launch model and we launch that twice a year, basically twice a year. Yeah, although there was one at one point when we didn’t launch it for a year and a half, so. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew
And then after somebody finishes Authority Hacker Pro, are there any other higher level products that someone can buy from you or. That’s it. That’s it. At the moment we, we did have a platinum, a higher tier platinum version of that in the past and it’s possible we’ll bring that back at some point in the future, but not for now. We we’ve obviously discussed it because there are people that have asked us for more. But anything which any content, ideas or any ideas we come across would always involve us spending a lot of time doing it still like one on one coaching or mastermind’s or something.

Mark
And that’s not something we really want to do. I think if we just spend more time concentrating on building really, really good products, that’s going to be more enjoyable for us and serve the business better as well. That’s good, yeah, sometimes creating other products like that can be more of a distraction, and so focusing on the main thing is the main thing to focus on.

Mark
Yeah, we’re very much just do one thing really, really well. So that’s our kind of strategic approach to.

Andrew
It’s cool and so do you guys do you guys offer any scheduled live training sessions with your course or is it entirely self-paced and you just release the lessons prerecorded ahead of time?

No, it’s it’s it’s entirely self-paced. So we don’t do any any live training like that. We have done webinars in the past which had a bit of kind of Q&A, but all of it is just video tutorials that screencast.

Andrew
So cool and then so

Gael
great fluff. So we like that. We can edit the fluff out like then it’s very clean. What we deliver is like like when you do like it’s cool, it’s you end up with stuff and people can ask us questions on the Facebook group I agree to.

Andrew
So is there anything else interesting you think would be worth mentioning in your WordPress site or anything else that you’re doing with Memberium that you think would be worth mentioning to anybody listening to?

Gael
Hmm, not really. I mean, the thing is, like I said, we kept it pretty simple. Memberium is like for me it’s like this silent team player that just like does what we do every time and doesn’t mess it up. And I don’t need it to be complicated. I just hate this job properly so I can focus on running the business. And it’s been doing exactly that. So are we doing the most advanced stuff with it? I don’t think so, but because the whole site itself and the marketing campaigns are tied to it are complicated and all are tied to us spending money to make this work.

Mark
And that’s that’s basically that’s basically it for us. But in terms of technical settings, I don’t think there’s anything that people would be very impressed. The autologin, I guess we’re using the login setup plugged with that. You can generate the URL with the member id etc and we use that as a redirect. It was perfectly as well that allows us to for people to engage directly with the company, which I really enjoy. I see people enjoy as well.

Gael
They don’t have to even pick a password or anything. It just logs them in directly, sends them the password does all that. I think that’s truly clean the way you guys built it. And I think I would recommend people use that function. It makes the whole check out on boarding process, very easy and it can take off lot of workload.

Andrew
Yeah, when somebody buys, if you get send them back to their email inbox, there’s a lot of opportunities for them to get distracted and then never end up logging in and then forget that they purchased the course. So in terms of…

Gael
Yeah, it’s a big deal.

Andrew
Are there any other important plugins or software that play a critical role in helping you run your business?

Gael
I mean, obviously, we talked about Deadline Funnel, Webinar Jam, I mean. every webinar that we use, like, all our evergreen setup and OptinMonster stuff, so there’s OptinMonster we have an integration that takes the emails, throw them into a webinar. People goes through the webinar, then they essentially get sent to sales page that is plugged into Deadline Funnel, Deadline Funnel sets a realistic deadline for them and then we direct them to the full price page.

Gael
So. The full price is $997 and the discounted price is $599. That works really well like the combo of webinar plus then Deadline Funnel. It’s honestly, if I had to build another funnel today and you told me you have to build a business that makes money I would probably use that works really, really well and yeah.

Elementor to build every single page pretty much that we use. Elementor is like, you know, you lose like you lose like two points out of ten in terms of website performance, but in terms of flexibility, in terms of building, your site is so nice that we’re willing to give that up, provided that we have the rest of our tech in. That is pretty sound. We only had one issue with. No, it wasn’t them actually. It was Nitropack. But we almost had never had issues with the browser compatibility, etc.

Gael
Which a lot of page builders will probably give you issues with. So yeah, I would recommend Elementor. All our sales pages are built with that.

Gael
And yeah, that’s the main combo for when we do live. It’s mostly sending emails, doing retargeting ads, building audiences with ActiveCampaign as well. So based on engagement and everything, and then showing us to these people. And we have affiliates and we use ThriveCart for check out as well. We didn’t mention that and it runs our affiliate programs. So that’s basically the tech stack.

Andrew
Very cool, and so you kind of indirectly answered this, but what’s been your best sales strategy for attracting new customers for your course?

Gael
So it’s basically people Googling stuff about stuff that’s related to our niche, so maybe like how to build an Amazon website, it looks like if you Google in that we have a really good blog post about this and then we have an opt in very often in the form of an opt in pop up.

Gael
So that would be run by a monster that essentially says, hey, we have that free training. That’s like two hours. Like it’s a really big free training with, you know, a lot of webinars out, just like 15 minutes of content and 45 minutes of sales pitch. That training is like two hours of content before we even get to the sales pitch. But people love it. It’s what it does essentially access like as real lead magnet and real value builder before people buy.

Gael
Also, why does it subsegments the audience like it’s unlikely that if someone is not willing to go through a really high quality free training, they will pay for training.

Gael
And so, so has been doing really well for us. And then. Yeah, and then after that, people are on a sequence where they have a first deadline for a 599 instead of 997 offer, and then we offer them a payment plan if they didn’t take the first offer. And then after that they just get into our broadcast list, which then gets promoted, launches twice a year and all new content if we have new content to build engagement between launches.

Gael
So that’s that’s that’s what’s working for us. That’s by far the biggest lead gen. And then we just need to create more content that attracts more people. You know, I think there’s so common wisdom that you need to sell someone a two hundred dollar product before you can sell someone a thousand dollar product. But it doesn’t really seem to be the case with us. We’ve identified that either when someone first comes into our ecosystem, first joins our list, we we have an offer for them.

Mark
If people don’t buy there, it’s usually they don’t trust us yet or they don’t know who we are or whatever. So they go into that broadcast list and they get our weekly free podcast or YouTube videos or blog posts when they they come out. And over time, all of those podcast, especially, is designed to build engagement rather than bring in a new audience. So they a lot of people really feel like they get to know. And I personally and like what we stand for and the people that like that very often will further down the line purchase one of our products when they’re next presented with an offer.

Mark
So even if they’re not coming in initially, we may get someone six months, 12 months down the line. That’s interesting. And so if you had to pick a few, what were some of the biggest mistakes you guys have made while growing your program? I think that I think on the on the pricing initially, and this is true of basically everyone who has an product, is they underprice it because they’re scared of they’re not scared of underpricing, but they’re scared of overpricing when the kind of business damage is more or less the same with those two decisions.

Mark
And really, every time we’ve increased the price, it hasn’t affected conversion rate, sometimes even gone up. So I think that raising your prices earlier is probably the number one thing we we should have done way, way back in the day. Aside from that, I don’t know. It’s mostly been like there’s a few tech hiccups here and there. We messed up a launch because we weren’t testing a landing. We messed up the sales pitch on the sales pitch on the iOS, no iOS on Safari browser.

Mark
So just like whenever you have a launch, you just have to, like, triple check everything. So we have a lot of like checklists and SOPs and stuff just to do a lot of redundancy in there until something breaks every time you get better fixing it faster.

Andrew
So, yes, a couple other quick questions. What theme did you guys use for your site? I don’t think we covered that.

Gael
We use Astra. We use it’s like a pretty basic WordPress theme that’s like, well, it’s not the fastest, but like it’s been a good combo of like functionality and like optimization.

Gael
Absolutely. And I would go, yeah, they have CSS for LearnDash out of the box in there, which is nice if your absolute fastest. I would probably go GeneratePress. GeneratePress is like probably the lightest theme that you can use at this point.

Gael
I think I mean I’m sure someone is gonna prove me wrong but from your but Kadence is going is getting really good as well these days.

Gael
But far as what we use for we love abstracts right now and it’s like with element, like being able to take over whatever part of the site you want, the team choice you make. I mean, you just want it to not be on the way really is the most important for us. And you want it to not slow down your website because Elementor allows us to do the header, the footer, the post templates, whatever we want, if we want to take it over for any part of the website. So, yeah.

Andrew
Yeah, Elementor is the best, so in terms of customer service, do you have any advice that you could share on how you guys handle customer service?

Mark
Pick a really good tool to to organize that. We made the mistake of using a system called Crisp, which we found in AppSumo back in the day. And it was just it was horrendous for for what we needed was like a live chat. And we were trying to use it as a ticketing system. So I was kind of our fault. But when we switched over to Help Scout just because everything was so well organized and little things like when you click on someone’s email address in there, it automatically copies it.

Mark
So it’s easier for support people to enter in our database. They’re searching for something or the analytics. You get out of there so you can check weekly, like how long is it taking you to first answer someone’s or first respond to someone? So we looked at our KPIs there and we just started measuring it. What gets what gets measured, gets improved, went down from like two and a half days or two days on average to about one to two hours during business hours these days.

Mark
So really, it’s just small having the right platform, having the right tool in place, and then small incremental improvements, the more the more kind of like standard response templates you can make. So if someone forgets her password, canned response, I forget what’s called an help scout was essentially canned response where here are the steps you need to go through to to do that and you can just fire that off to people. So like 60 to 80 percent of responses will fall under that.

Mark
And then that allows you more or your support team more free time to spend a lot of time helping people that really need help. But aside from that, I just get really good, good people on your support team. Don’t don’t cheap out on on outsourcing it, have it all in-house and and really make it a priority to do good in that area.

Andrew
And do you with your support team, do you hire them directly or do you find them through flatworm platforms like Upwork or other similar platforms like that?

Mark
No, we hired them all directly. So, again, like we would do a whole podcast on hiring. We actually have one of our courses is about hiring team members. But it’s we used to be really, really good at it. But we’ve I mean, we have made hundreds of thousands of dollars of hiring mistakes over over the last decade. And we’ve just eventually gotten better at a really, really good book is Who, WHO by Jeff Smart.

Mark
That is kind of our framework for for how we hire. But essentially this is about having a multi-stage model, getting a lot of people, a lot of applicants and then testing them, testing them, testing them, testing them, disqualifying anyone who’s not perfect and then eventually finding finding some good people. But what when we follow that process and when we get the right people through, they do as much work as, you know for. Average quality employee.

Andrew
Let’s see, and then so do you have any other important advice for anyone else who wants to start their own course or membership site that you think would be worth sharing? Yeah, it’s a bit of a grind, so a lot of people think that, oh, Mark and Gael are making some money selling. Of course I’m going to make a course, too. But don’t do it if you if your other if your main business model is something else, like if you’re going to do this, you have to really go all in because the difference between an average quality course and a really good one is actually quite high.

Mark
And it takes many years to to actually get good at creating this kind of content. So something I think you really have to commit to. I think you need to build an audience before you start. I don’t want too many people don’t really know anyone that started a course just using ads, though. I guess it would be possible if you’d done it, if you’d done it before. But, built I could

Gael
There would be a lot of losses initially, like that. You would lose a lot of money initially, I think. I mean, it’s possible it’s a really, really good at ads. So you can do that. But it would take some time to figure it out and it’s going to cost money.

Mark
I think it’s just I mean, really creating content and like teaching people if you have a natural inclination to do it, if you enjoy it, it’s a really fun business to get into. So just just get started, really. And you can kind of like figure out along the way.

Andrew
That’s true, and I can tell you guys really care about your audience and you enjoy helping people to feel like that’s really important to for a lot, of course, creators and people see a lot, of course, creators or membership site owners on the surface, and they think they’re making a lot of money or some people try to do it for the money. But that’s not really like you start to hate it.

Gael
If you’re if you don’t like it, it’s like it’s like, yeah, we’re doing well. But like actually we have a log of like 100 plus videos to record now. It’s like, well, you better enjoy doing the videos because otherwise it’s like it doesn’t matter how much money you’re making, you probably hate it. Yeah.

Mark
I mean if you’re if you’re just in it for the money, like build a tool or something, you’ll make far more than selling courses. And so we are right.

Andrew
What are you guys plans for the near term future?

Mark
More of the same. So, updating courses..

Gael
Pretty boring.

Mark
Yeah, adding more blueprint’s, more modules to two courses and…

Gael
In cold traffic on Facebook ads I would say, like I think we would. We have a good strategy with SEO. This is our strong point and it’s working well. We obviously want to expand that, but we already we know we just need to do more of the same. Whereas I think on cold traffic, I think there is a there’s room for a hard reboot and also do better deep analytics so that we run as we run all of that, like being able to trace back in a clean way. All your cells is much more complicated than people think when you have long funnels because, well, Facebook only tracks people for seven days, etc.

Gael
. So it’s not simple if people go through long sequences, et cetera, to increase our and so on. So like there is work that we to spend on that. So I think there’s a big update coming for us and a lot of marketing walk. And that’s it, I think, on the customer support side.

Mark
So improving that new user experience, like the first hundred days, what should that look like? What are all the the touch points which we need to interact with people, people in identifying those building motivations and processes to just make that whole side of things significantly better is a priority for us.

Mark
But to be honest with you, most of our recent quarterly meetings have been not about what what extra can we do? It’s about what what can we stop doing? Because when you when you’re an entrepreneur, there’s always like new ideas.

Mark
And how do this I say this, let’s do this. You always have to keep coming back to like, what is your core business model? What are you trying to do here? How can you do more of that and execute on that better? And that tends to be what we we discussed more than any thinking of analytics.

Andrew
Yet when you’re running an online business now, there’s a lot of different marketing pieces involved in getting somebody to become a customer. So how do you guys let’s see. I think I read somewhere you guys use wicked reports. Or am I wrong? We did for a while, but we kind of, to be honest itself, although we didn’t maintain it properly and it just got out of sync with reality, and now we agreed on this. So but we did use it.

Gael
We get reports about two years we might use SegMetrics. Actually, I was thinking about switching to SegMetrics as we hard reboot.

Gael
So we’re going to try it. I think we can report it was it was good, but it was the thinking very, very much like it’s like randomly your Facebook talking to synchronize all your Google AdWords and synchronises around you.

Gael
By the time you catch it or something, you’d lose like six hours of data, eight hours of data or whatever is like it was a bit annoying. And to be honest, I think there was a big mistake on our end and we should have learned to use it more. And it’s one of these things. It’s like having other tools is great. But actually you need to learn how to use these tools well to make the most of it.

Gael
And checking out is the easiest part for the tool, which are people don’t really realize. It’s especially for analytics if I told you to spend a lot of time sitting at your reports, etc, etc., which is why I want to spend a whole month on something like analytics afterwards. And this is another day, to be honest. So, yeah.

Andrew
If someone was interested in learning more from you guys, where would the best place for them to go be?

Mark
I think you just go to www.authorityhacker.com. Our blog is there, you can check us out. We have a podcast with two hundred and twenty plus episodes. Now, we’re doing it daily at the moment, but sometimes it’s weekly. We’re on YouTube as well. I mean, we have months of free content that people can can go through. So I would I would check that out first.

Andrew
And then for anybody listening, we’ll have those links directly below this video. Is there anything else you wanted to cover or anything else you want to go through at the site?

Mark
Um, I think I’m good.

Gael
Oh, I mean, that’s pretty already one pretty picture.

Andrew
All right, Mark and Gael, thanks so much for joining us.

Mark
Thank you. It’s fun.

Gael
Thanks for having us.


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